UPDATE: Yep, I failed to correctly predict the 2016 election outcome. Keep reading though.
The 2016 Vice Presidential debate will take place between Democratic Virginia Senator Tim Kaine and Republican Indiana Governor Mike Pence on Tuesday October 4th 2016, starting at 9 pm in Farmville, Virginia.
Wait, wait, there’s an actual Farmville? It’s not just a virtual timesuck that one random friend keeps inviting you to play on Facebook? Anyway.
Just like the last debate, at 9 pm exactly, late Taurus was rising. Interestingly however, there was a slight delay at the beginning because of Lester Holt’s microphone. This led to the candidates actually starting to talk once Gemini was rising, with Mercury (the planet of communication and debate) ruling. I wonder if the same thing will happen on Tuesday. If it does, they won’t start talking until after 9:03:20. Anyway, here’s the chart for 9 pm.
Mercury in Virgo vs Jupiter in Libra, Rematch
From the last debate, it appears Hillary was represented by Mercury in Virgo ruling the 1st, by delivering a solid performance, jumping from topic to topic nimbly and ably, clearly well prepared. Meanwhile Trump was represented by Jupiter ruling the 7th, which was closely conjunct the Sun, combust and unable to deliver on its own promise of greatness. So was Trump. If we were to presume that the rulers that applied to Clinton and Trump would apply to their respective running mates, then Mercury would signify Kaine and Jupiter would signify Pence.
While Mercury is in a similar condition as last time in Virgo, Jupiter’s condition has worsened since the first presidential debate. It will have improved a little since it is approaching its heliacal rising from the beams of the Sun. The big count against Jupiter is that it is “struck by a ray” by Mars. By receiving an applying square from Mars within 3 degrees, it fulfills one of the conditions for maltreatment which brings out a hostile resistance to the agenda of the planet and brings out its worst qualities. Jupiter’s next aspect is a sextile to Saturn, which means it also satisfies another condition of maltreatment – enclosure by the malefics. This means that Jupiter acts like a malefic!
I imagine Pence will be harshly questioned about his involvement in his state’s so-called “religious freedom” bill which was controversial because its critics charged that it was tantamount to legalizing discrimination against LGBT people. Questions about this will likely unveil some of his ugly attitudes about LGBT people, under the guise of morality/religion/philosophy, some realm of Jupiter. Such is a corrupted Jupiter.
Blow by Blow
9:03:20 – Ascendant moves into Gemini
9:04:11 – Moon at 26 Scorpio sextiles Mercury at 26 Virgo
9:17:49 – Ascendant at 4 Gemini conjunct Kaine’s Moon at 4 Gemini
9:19-22 – IC at 13 Leo conjunct Pence’s Uranus at 13 Leo
9:22:31 – Jupiter in Libra trine Ascendant in Gemini
9:22:35 – Venus at 13 Scorpio square Midheaven at 13 Aquarius
9:38:05 – Neptune at 9 Pisces square Ascendant at 9 Gemini
9:46:02 – Saturn at 11 Sagittarius sets
9:47:16 – Sun at 12 Libra trine Ascendant at 12 Gemini
9:47:39 – Nodes at 12 Virgo/Pisces square Ascendant at 12 Gemini
9:57:34 – Uranus at 22 Aries sextile Midheaven at 22 Aquarius
10:01-03 – Ascendant at 16 Gemini conjunct Pence’s Sun at 16 Gemini
10:13:23 – Moon at 26 Scorpio square Midheaven at 26 Aquarius
10:22-25 – Ascendant at 21 Gemini conjunct Pence’s Mercury at 21 Gemini
10:25:05 – Midheaven moves into Pisces
10:29:31 – Uranus at 22 Aries sextiles Ascendant at 22 Gemini
10:30 – debate ends
Closest Transits
Kaine’s closest transits include the following:
Jupiter at 5 Libra conjunct Kaine’s Descendant at 4 Libra – The Descendant rules partnerships, the “other”, as well as opponents. Having Jupiter here might conventionally suggest making a good impression on others, forging strong partnerships. However, knowing that Jupiter is corrupted at the debate and is likely Pence’s signifier, might also suggest literally that Jupiter here is his “opponent”. Mars
Mars at 5 Capricorn conjunct Kaine’s 2 Capricorn MC – He’s putting up his dukes! It is a debate after all, and he will likely be very animated in tearing his opponent down. However, he can also get in trouble with this transit. Obama had this exact same transit at his first debate in 2012 when his reputation took a hit. This particular conjunction is high profile for him because Pluto is currently conjunct his Mars. So Mars transits are going to be Pluto-like while Pluto is on his Mars. I don’t think it will be quite as bad for him though since Mars is his Ascendant ruler, so it doesn’t work against him as much as it is his modus operandi.
Pence’s closest transits include the following:
Mars at 5 Capricorn conjunct/Jupiter at 5 Libra square Pence’s Saturn at 5 Capricorn
Uh. That’s not good. We don’t have Pence’s birth time, but we don’t need it to see that this could be a difficult transit. At the very best, Mars on your Saturn can agitate you towards making concrete actions on things you typically delay. At worst, it’s an attack on your greatest weaknesses. Jupiter would normally ameliorate this, but this particular Jupiter on the night of the debate happens to be when it is sandwiched between the malefics, causing it to be malefic itself!
Public Reaction
The Moon typically represents “the people” in inceptions, so this is where I look to see what the public reaction might be. During the debate it is in Scorpio, applying directly to a sextile with Mercury at the very beginning of the debate. Very shortly after, the Moon completes the sextile at 9:04:11 pm. For the rest of the debate, the Moon is separating, and its next aspect is to Jupiter, Pence’s significator. Two things to keep in mind though, is the Moon has to cross a sign boundary before it sextiles Jupiter, and the Moon will have separated from Mercury by less than a degree by the end of the debate. This still suggests a much closer affinity between the public and Mercury than with Jupiter for this debate.
Perhaps the public expectation will be that Kaine will win, but once the Moon separates from Mercury and applies to Jupiter, they will feel sympathy for Pence. And really, you have to feel some sympathy for Pence. His own record aside, you have to acknowledge he is in the very unenviable position of being Trump’s running mate. Whatever else his faults, he disagrees with Trump on many key issues and still has to defend him. He is clearly quite a bit more serious about public service and governance than Trump has ever been, and he must cringe internally every time he has to defend the latest Trump outburst. Not easy being Pence.
Have fun watching! Join me on my Facebook page where I’ll be doing live updates underneath the link for this article!
patrick, thank you very much for putting this out here. this is going to be more ‘fun’ to watch now.
whenever i catch myself feeling sorry for pence i remind myself that he actively put himself exactly where he is because he feels the experience (many might say ‘the shame/shaming’) is worth the pay off. must be one hell of a pay off!
I’m taking Chris’s Hellenistic Astrology course and have read all of the posts on sevenstarsastrology. If I remember correctly, although Jupiter dominates in his square to Mars, this is cancelled out because the aspect is 3 degrees or less, therefore Jupiter is struck by the rays of Mars and Mars is more powerful/dominate than Jupiter, correct? The fact that Mars is also in exaltation probably helps too. I think I will watch the debate with the timing list above and see if anything interesting happens when certain planets and zodiacal degrees are activated. 🙂